Today on the sorority I am very excited to welcome my dear friend Athena. So she is the owner of two incredible empires. So she has the Estee Bestie and Flash Infused and she's just a magnificent fucking human being that we're gonna get into it here. We're gonna get into some tea.
BT dubs. If you don't listen to her podcast, the ST by ST time, you should probably check it out because she's real and she spills the shit. So let's welcome Athena.
I'll give you a moment if you'd like to add anything to your introduction and we're just gonna, we're just gonna shoot the shit today because we've got lots to talk about.
I know. I feel like Well, hi, I'm Athena. That's the bestie also, slash infused. So I do permanent jewelry and aesthetics. And I am just, I met you. I mean, I met you in AAM PMU. Like we did a couple, we have done two of the same coaching programs. We were just chatting about that. So it's like, of course we're going to connect.
We clearly have the same mindset and we clearly are attracted to the same type of work ethic and. Integral people that we need in our lives. So, maybe our traumas are similar too. Probably. Equally as crazy. Yeah. You know, I don't like to call it crazy anymore. I call it passionate. Because I feel like people use the word crazy as like an attack.
And like, that doesn't attack me. Oh, I'm taking it back. I love being crazy. Crazy, beautiful, crazy colorful. I'm taking it back. I'm more about that psycho, big, crazy energy. I'm, I'm definitely 2024 FAFO. You keep seeing me say it, I'm gonna keep saying it, is what I've said, for the last, like, six months or so, like, 2024, fuck around and find out.
Try me. I love when you put the acronym because I say it all the time in studio, fuck around and find out, especially when we're doing skill assessment, like you have to fuck around and find out, you can't learn through a screen. That's why you're here to do it safely. And then we were like, message it to me, FAFO.
I'm like, what's that? And I'm like, I should have put that together because I'm so dumb. I was like, why did I not put this together? So. Actually, and I did want to bring up, so one of the reasons Athena is here, because we chat all the time in IG, we just live over there, and she commented on one of my reels, because I was talking about catty bitch bullshit, and how community over collaboration has always been my number one thing, but that being said, there's always a duality, especially, well in any industry, in anything in life, there's a duality, but when we're looking at community over collaboration, there is a duality, A line that you have to protect yourself and your business and you have to operate.
Everyone's preaching authenticity, but they are lacking the integrity behind it. So we're going to chat a little bit about that and I'll let you go on with the cool theme we discussed right before we went into recording. It's not about calling people out. We're not here to drag people down, but we're here to create an awareness and a conversation around the truths of what really does happen.
Because when we look at any industry, beauty, tattooing, anything, there's always going to be shit behind the scenes, in the internet, behind the screens, that people don't consider. And when you're really young and excited and heart led and out there and putting yourself out there and making all these connections.
You also don't want to be gullible and open yourself up to being attacked or losing things or having things taken from you. So I'm going to let you take the stage to talk a little bit more about that. So our theme today is don't throw stones if you live in a glass house. And all these people out here think they have built these mansions, these brick by brick little mansions, and by brick I mean like, you know, they started their business, they got successful on Instagram, they started partnering and collabing with other big names in the industry, they created a product, they've done all these things, right?
But the bricks stopped there, and they never glued them together, and they never put the cement in there, and they never built around that structure. So really, they just have this pile of bricks that they have sitting outside on their front lawn because they didn't know how to actually apply it to their house, right?
So they're sitting here in a glass house thinking they got a mansion full of bricks, and that's just not how it is. And it crumbles pretty quickly if you don't have a firm foundation. If you don't, if you don't lock that shit in, it all falls apart very quickly. And that glue comes from integrity. That glue comes from putting the time and the effort and the work and the love into what we do and who we work with.
Picking backing off of other people's success isn't going to get you anywhere. You might get a quick hit, You might think that you're, you're feeling it, you feel important, but that's ego driven. And if you're trying to back off someone, that's, that's not going to work. And this can go both ways. You can be, and what's silly is you don't have to be like an underdog trying to piggyback.
There are industry professionals out there that are backing off those who are unaware, who are inexperienced. And recently, Athena's been going through that. She's had one of her programs ripped off and she's been, there's legal stuff going on and there's a lot of considerations people don't consider and from people that she fully trusted.
Yeah, people that, yeah, people I fully trusted and was assigned to in a program, you know, that, that I paid for and, and I don't hold the program accountable. I hold that person that did that to me accountable because what people also don't understand is like, People run and operate their businesses differently that like, just because someone is associated with something doesn't mean that they actually are ownership of that company.
Like for me, I had master trainers. They were 10. 99 for me, right? So they're not, I mean, yes, I am responsible for them through the licensing agreements and things like that, that I do. I'm responsible for that training program. I'm allowing them to use my name in the program. I give them all the materials, things like that, but they are not a representation of or legally.
You know, ownership of Flash Fuse, the brand that they were hired for. They were an employee, essentially, as a 1099 independent contractor. And people don't see that. So, like, what I think is happening, at least from my perspective from, like, that topic right there, is, like, people don't know and people are acting out of fear instead of becoming educated.
And when you see all of these big names collaborating together, we're not seeing the business truth behind it. They're not explaining what's happening behind it. And you wonder why you keep seeing the same people pop up in the same places. It's because they put themselves on a pedestal, and then when they built another pedestal, they put their friend there, right?
And then that's where that original person That has found these other people to build up because it does. Community overclock in competition, you know, collaboration is better. So it looks better on screen, but at the end of the day, these people are doing shitty things to everyone else, but their friends are keeping them there on that pedestal and they're just flopping it back and forth.
Well, and it's just, it's kind of a whole circle jerking mentality, right? And you see the broadcasting world too, where everyone just kind of like interviews each other to build views. And yeah, there is a strategy to sharing audiences and things like that. But if you don't have the integrity and if you don't have the drive and the passion and the purpose behind what you do, That there's no cement in those bricks, right?
Like, sure. Okay. So you're creating hype. You're creating this awareness and you're floating around. But in the end, what, what are you standing on? And that's what I want you to ask yourself when you go into a partnership and collaborate with someone. What are you expecting from them? Yeah. Art, what are you asking from them?
I do believe in giving without expectation, but in business. It needs to be a, it's a two way street. When you collaborate with somebody, you should be expecting, you should be giving what you are asking for, expecting a return to have contracts in place to do that. If you are asking influencer to post your work and you're in permanent makeup, that you should have an agreement that they're going to post X amount of posts on this page or whatever, for that reason.
So you know that business wise you're getting your investment back. If you're providing a free service in exchange, for example, there are things you need to consider. Yeah, protect yourself because I think people put too much hope in like that. Will you help me? Will you help me? I'm not good enough. And then they almost feel starstruck when someone opens up and says, Oh yeah, I'll do this for you.
But then they don't protect themselves and it all gets taken from them. And I just want to remind people that you don't have to assume the worst in everyone. I know that's something we're going to, we're most of us do anyways. But it's asking the questions and having paperwork in place and understanding that everything is a risk.
And if you're going into it with the best of intentions and you know that your side of the street is clean and you're doing your due diligence, sometimes you have to be okay with if there's a lesson and someone's done you wrong, taking the higher road, lashing out, going back, trying to rip everything apart.
Speaking your truth is one thing, but like, don't get stuck in like that vibe of just like, Is this the hill you want to die on or can you learn from this and speak to it and move above it and educate others like Athena's been doing? She's been educating others like, like you got a lawyer up. You got to, you go after people, you hold people accountable.
Yeah, that's, that's another thing too. I feel like in a lot, especially in the PMU industry and like beauty industry, like people. People think that you won't. They assume that you are just as uneducated as they are, whether they're up here at this level or they're down here at this level. They assume that, legal wise, like, y'all are all down here.
They assume that nobody's gonna do anything, because you're gonna get blacklisted, you're not gonna be invited to events to speak, because why? Again, Because why? Because all those people are literally in cahoots together. And if you, it's like birds of a feather flock together. If you're not flocking and flying the way that they want you to flock and fly, you are not going to be speaking on that stage.
You are not going to get that invite. You're not going to get that vendor invite. You're not going to see it. Your opportunities are going to be made because you make them and you push your way in, and that's it. And they don't want integrity, because if integrity is there, if people who have integrity are there, the shit's gonna blow off the lid.
And that's what we're seeing happen. Just like calling out, just, just, we're just calling out. Well, light will always, always trump darkness. It will. Light will always trump darkness. And what I want to ask you, Athena, is going through all of this, and even with like your patents, because I know you've been attacked over your patents and all, it's like, I feel like right now you're in a season of, it's like awareness, but how do you protect yourself a little bit?
Because you are being attacked a lot online in a lot of different ways, in a lot of different ways right now. And I have to, like, Fucking give you an applause because you've been handling it very well. Instead of blowing up, you've handled it very constructively. You've been very forward and turned it into an educational experience.
But how do you kind of protect yourself when, because it can be draining. I know people comment stuff for me. Like sometimes it hits you for a minute and like, yeah, it can take you back whether it makes you want to cry, almost feel like when I throw up, you kind of get like the for a second. Yeah. So how have you found navigating this?
I know as we get through it, it doesn't hit as hard every time. But how do you deal with that when you're getting comments online? I know you had one today you shared with me that set you off. How, how do you go from reading a comment and then how do you manage your energy in that moment? How do you take that and flip it so that you're not falling into that like black hole, doom, gloom and like, yeah, it is, it is, it is a trap.
I mean, for me, I don't know. I'm, I'm motivated by like internal passion and like by justice. Right. So like I am motivated, like, This is so wrong. Like, you will feel me because of a spite that I have for you. That is fuel. That's fuel for me. I love being underestimated because I try my damndest to do everything by the legal book.
Because at the end of the day, we can have a court of public opinion on Instagram, on Facebook, on whatever. But at the end of the day, I have the receipts, and I always will, and I know what it's like to be in the courtroom. So like, at the end of the day, the judge makes the final decision. At the end of the day, lawyer up.
Like, that's, that's what I do, and like, so what I do is I act with integrity. I act with integrity. within my education and knowing what I can and cannot say. You can say whatever the hell you want as long as it's true. Don't ever let somebody try to shut you up because you know they will and say, oh, well, you're defaming or oh, you're slander.
No, it's not. If it's true. As personal experience and you're speaking to your story, it is true. And that's where people have a hard time showing up online. What can I say? You can say whatever is true to your experience as you see it now. Yeah, exactly. And, and I feel like that's something that has been, you know, I keep preaching like education over fear, like stop acting out of fear.
I see most of these people doing the things that they're doing because they're fearful. They're fearful they're not going to make enough money. They're fearful they're going to fall behind and not be on trend instead of focusing on what they do best and leaning into what they do best. They are fucking people over left and right out of fear of not being the next new it.
And that's just point blank what it is. Yeah, like, when, how is it, I don't know how to get this across to people, because everyone, especially now with the whole, like, Instagram is fake trend that's been going on, like, I saw that, and like, it doesn't resonate with me. No, because I'm not fake. Yeah. But I feel like there's so much pressure, everyone's like, Trying to reach this iconic status.
It's like, if you stopped focusing on becoming an icon and just started speaking your truth and being okay with changing your fucking mind, because you know what the me two years ago did things differently, I multiple times a day on two different platforms. I tried to think, I mean, you and I've been in a program that was very, very high driven and we got a lot of results out of it, but for me to operate in that way, I couldn't do that with the side.
Well, it was just me at the time. I didn't even have a team then. And I did very well. But. This is something we were also discussing. When you're going through things. And you're, you're experiencing all these different ways of doing things, these different opinions. And instead of focusing on being the best at it, be the best at what you can do and what works for you and share that.
That's how you stay relevant. That's how you stay online because your people that resonate with you want to hear from you what your experiences are and how I do things, how I do things and how I train and teach people will get. And there's some things that they'll be like, no. That doesn't work for me.
Just like coaches. We've actually had, we've shared similar coaches and we actually take similar, same, some, some, same, some different pieces of information. We do it differently with our businesses. We both scaled two empires, but it's taking what we've learned and finding out what works for us. And then re listening, I was telling Athena, I was re listening to one of the coaches I've talked to because we have all our Zoom recording.
Somebody's wondering, how do you re listen to it? And I'm looking back at stuff because I burned everything down and changed it. And it hits different. As we evolve, as we level up, as we grow, me now is just like, think of us teenagers. When we were teenagers in our rebellious phase, I mean, I was a lot more destructive.
I'll say that things hit different and a lot of things I didn't hear or didn't see. Well, me now versus me six months ago, even season here's things differently. Things resonate, especially depending on your season, where you are in your business, what your focus is on. And I recently saw one of your posts on Instagram.
You're talking about how you actually let left the SD bestie for a while. You left it alone for a bit and now you're coming back to it and look at all the shit you're doing with it. You can leave things alone and come back and pour into them again later. Like, people don't understand that it's not about Instagram, it's about where you direct your energy.
So even though Athena's been under attack and dealing with all this shit, she's blowing up. She's doing more with it. You want to speak a little bit on that? Like how you kind of the journey of the journey has been for you when you kind of built flash with you as it went back to ST bestie. Yeah. I mean, bestie was draining me.
Um, I was waiting for my patent. I was constantly being slandered by large brands and people, um, and, and actually being slandered. Um, And it just got to be a little bit exhausting. And so when I found permanent jewelry, I was like, wow, you know, I actually really enjoying this. I really liked this. I wanted to do so much thing, so many things with coaching with bestie, and I'm coming back to do that now.
But I just, it wasn't the right time for me in that part of Bestie's journey. Because I like to like now, like I wasn't separating myself the way that I can speak about it now. I wasn't separating myself as an individual from Bestie as the business. That I could say, I'm coming back for Bestie. I'm gonna put you over here and set you over here while I figure it out and center myself over here.
Yeah, I was like a little bit nuts and started a whole, you know, million dollar business and training program. Absolutely. Was it everything that I was supposed to do? Absolutely. Because I did everything I said I was going to do. Start a coaching program, build those relationships for machines, make sure that I did the best that I could possibly do for my students, and, and coaching the way that I want to coach.
I I did all that, but I couldn't do that holding on to Bessie because I needed to break up with Bessie first. And you know, it's funny, I like how you mentioned that you saw, like, my Instagram post. I actually did a huge Instagram post on Bessie when I was like, Hey. I'm taking a break. I'm mentally drained from this business.
I am absolutely have no direction and what I need to do and how to get to where I'm going. Cause I'm so in it and attached to it emotionally. And like when I came back, people actually use that post against me to like harass me. They were like literally making fun of the mental status of it. I know. So my point is here, like, you need to do for your business because people are going to hate on you no matter if you're doing it.
Right way, wrong way, up way, down way, left way, whatever way. They're gonna make anything up about you to make them feel better about themselves. That's why you have to focus on you and you cannot lean into what other people are doing or saying to make business decisions. Well, and that's why social media, instead of creating social media for other people, use social media as a tool to speak your truth and your experience.
If you look at social media as an outlet, it's a free outlet to use your voice. And for those that are still too shy to be on camera or speak, you can write a post. You can, I find my social media cathartic. My captions are long. They don't follow any of the old caption formulas sometimes, but you know what?
They're real. And I enjoy making posts like that from time to time. Yeah, I'll sprinkle other stuff in there, but I've been more fixated on stories and behind the screen. I'm going to use that as a thing now, instead of behind the scenes, behind the screen. Got it. Sharing having a it's a platform like it's called a platform for a reason.
So stand up self express and speak your truth and whatever resonates with you. And that's the desperate cry for help everyone has. And that's why everyone's being attacked because people that are too afraid. Yeah, afraid to have their own opinion. We'll have an opinion of attack or or putting someone down in a comment.
Anyone who's commenting negatively is going through their own shit. They don't feel well about themselves, and I don't feel bad saying this because it's true. I, I, a troll is a troll for a reason. They're ugly inside, there's something going on, whether they're going through a shitty time in their life, whether they're being attacked by someone else themselves, it's an outlet.
Just like, as mothers, when I have a fucking meltdown over dropping a fork that was clean from the dishwasher and it ends my day, I might be getting my period if that happens, but why am I mad about this fork? Realistically, I'm mad because. I didn't pay attention and I dropped it. So there's something I'm mad about cause I'm thinking about other shit.
My brain's cluttered. There's always something underlying. So some things are stupid. I use a dumb example, but you know, I have people that message me like you should kill yourself, you know, all these things, especially like it's usually like Southern, um, like in America and the Southern state. male tattooers.
They just don't like me. I mean, that's fine. I'm not here for them. I'm laughing because I've received disdain. They keep commenting. I'm like, you will continue to see my stuff if you keep interacting with my page. Just scroll by if you don't like me. But it's, it's funny because it's like, it's almost a desperate cry for help because it triggered something in them.
They're mad that I charge more than they do for a minimum rate. Okay, then raise your rate. Yeah. Like, you can't charge as much as me, that's okay. Do you, boo? Like, I don't care what your prices are, I'm, I'm, I'm over here doing me. Or you look at their stuff and their skill set is like, not there and you're like, okay, so this is a, this is a, I don't feel as good as.
It's an ego. Gotta break me down. People are living in their ego too much. They are. But like, I can turn around and, in my instance, at first I tried to respond and, and defend or be like, okay, well, you know, this is what I'm. I did that too for a while. So. But then that keeps going. It always fucking, it just ignites them even more.
You can't, you cannot explain yourself to someone who doesn't fucking want to listen. It's like when a toddler's in a tantrum, you gotta wait that shit out and walk away. Like, they're either gonna want a hug later, or they're gonna fuck off. Like, it's just one of the two things. They're gonna, they're gonna figure out a help, or get a hug.
Yeah. You choose, though. Yeah. What do you wanna do here? You wanna do it yourself? You help you? Just let me know. Yeah, I mean, I, when you asked me about like, how do I deal with it, like, I can tell you, like, between like, December and like, February was like, the worst of the worst that I've ever experienced.
I've never seen, personally, I've never seen anybody get so, like, I don't know like full coverage from every angle of like just lies and bullshit said about them and like just just absolutely people did not know the whole story at all. The people that asked did and they definitely were like, oh, that's fucked up.
Sorry, I did that. Now that I know the whole story, but let me just tell you like I had a tick tock even go viral this girl. I don't even give her grace and say her name. I hope she burns. Literally. She, she can have the day that she deserves. She made this video saying that I was like, you know, judging people, this that and the other thing, and I was like, what?
I literally made like a 15 second video, of course the one that goes viral, right? About like a dermaplane. And like, just asking to see the results. Like, I want to see your results if you are dermaplaning. It looked amazing. I actually really enjoyed the video. It wasn't even like anybody's face to video.
It was like a video of a video. It was a stitch. This girl did a whole video slandering me left and right talking about my trademark. And I was like, what the fuck is going on? So like, in that moment. I literally had to grow the thickest skin ever. And then, you know, that was all through when I found out, like, my course was being ripped off and still sold.
And my former coach was promoting it. So it was like a fucking hot mess. You're like, okay, this is where we have to level up and put on the big girl panties. But I just don't know. But like, if I didn't, like, all this other shit doesn't even phase me anymore. It was like, I had to take that beating to know that was coming.
And like, Sheila always tells us, like, if you don't get burned, you don't learn. And like, boy, did I figure that one out this year. You know, I am very inspired by Sheila because I, we look at everything she's gone through. I found it very comforting to know that someone that successful, who is that well known, still goes through the shit.
You know, and I think that's something that I really love seeing and that's why I like being real because it's like I remember in the beginning when I was looking for a coaching program and didn't know where to invest. I was afraid to I felt like a fraud signing up for something with someone who was doing so well and had it all our shit together, you know, because you're just like, I can't even stand on top of my laundry.
How can I sign up for this program? Like, I'm just like. You know, and it's just, especially as mothers, like we're fucking busy. Like we got shit going on. And I think we have spouses, we have spouses, which also don't understand why we're doing what we do. They're just like, okay, like, yeah, you set yourself up for this and you're like, they don't understand the drama either because they're literally they don't understand like the cattiness that is actually happening.
Like I've never had so much bullying in my life at 33 years old. You know, I, and it's always going to happen. People are going to talk shit about you, like you have to just accept that. People are going to talk shit about you, whether it's your students, whether it's your client, that you can have a, I've had clients come in and like, I had the text messages to prove it, because I always follow up with my clients and she's like, my skin's amazing.
I'm so glad with what you did for me. I love this. And then like, I hadn't heard from her in a while and I was reaching out to like, Hey, you haven't been in. You know, like the usual, how's it going, like, and then she's like, you are so annoying. I cannot get rid of you. You're everywhere. And I was like, okay.
Did I see this? Did I see this on your Instagram? Like, yeah, so I'm like, okay, you can unfollow. She's like, you're on Instagram, you're my messenger, you're my emails. And I'm like, okay. Okay, so then unsubscribe. What do you want me to do? Like, would you like me to remove you from my client list? I guess, right?
But like, I had no inclination up until then. But I think at some point when things started blowing up, something was ignited, right? And then I've had instances where some students People tell the same breath. I've, I've taught them too much in a training, but then I didn't teach them enough. And you're like, okay, so what is it that you're like behind the balance?
Yeah. And like everyone has something to say based on their experience. We cannot control another person's experience. Yes. And I wanna preach to everyone out there that there is a difference between standing up and speaking your truth. Mm-Hmm. . Choosing and being selective of what you listen to that follows because some people just want to talk for the sake of being heard.
And some people have a message that they want to share in order to educate or to help gain perspective to help somebody else. So I always want you to ask yourself when you're consuming content, are you being sold to? Which is fine. Like, like I get sold to all the time. I found amazing, crazy shit being sold to.
Are you being, is this message just for the purpose of educating you and selling you on something? Is this message value driven in the sense of like, Hey, this is my personal insight. Like there's different categories and content and different forms of messaging. And then there's people who just want to be heard because they aren't being heard in their own life.
And you have to discern where you're going to focus your energy and what you're tuning into. You have to learn to recognize that for sure. And you have to be okay with it. You have to be okay that people are going to talk. Yeah, you just have to know if you are doing your due diligence and you are keeping your side of the street clean, then it doesn't matter.
Yeah. If someone says shit about you, you can either, if you're upset because you're like, oh my god, like that's true, well then maybe you want to fucking work on that. But if you hear it and you're like, well that's not true, then why does, why would it bother you if it's not true? You could say I'm an astronaut and I'd be like, I'm from outer space probably, but I wouldn't say I'm an astronaut.
Thanks. That's the biggest thing. That's the biggest thing for me. And I think the last one that I learned this year was like all of the crazy shit. Like I just realized, like I cannot control the narrative or the perspective that people are going to make up about anything. What I can do is I can control what I put out there.
I can control how I put out my story. Encourage people to think for themselves because that's a big thing for me is being like an informed consumer that's very close and dear to my heart. But one, you're not getting scammed. Two, you know your rights. And three, you know what to do if you are scammed, right?
So it's like, that's something that's very passionate for me. And then like, in a fire that drives me, but learning that I can't control that people are going to make shit up no matter what, and people are going to grip onto that, it is the sheep mentality that is the majority of the world. There's more sheep than there are wolves.
Yep. Always. There's always going to be more sheep than wolves. Okay? So it's like, you have to kind of assume that people are going to sheep like. Sheep life sheep, they're gonna just sheep up. Yeah. But there's like, and, and, and you know, there's a very rare like, you know, wolf dressed in a sheep's clothing, but like all these sheep think they're wolves.
That's the funny thing. The sheep think they're the wolves. They're not. They're still the sheep. And that's where it's like, what are you guys doing? Like, let's choose education over fear. Educate yourself. Come on. But that's their choice. Open your mind to listening to someone else's perspective. And it doesn't mean you have to like worship them.
Doesn't mean you have to follow them. It just means consider things from all angles. Play devil's advocate when it comes to your business. Protect yourself. Ask the hard questions. Don't just assume everyone has your best interest at heart. They don't. Assume they don't and figure out what they do. And that's what I would say.
Assume that they have their best interests at heart because you're going into any business. Anybody's going into any business relationship or any business. Like collaborate, collaboration with their own best interests at heart. There are very few people, and that's where it becomes a friendship. It's not a business relationship anymore.
It's a friendship. Like, hey, I need your help. I want to go on this podcast. You have a huge podcast. Would you feature me? We can talk about something. That's a friendship. You know, those, those are relationships that are built over time through situations and scenarios that you have both experienced together, whether it be an industry or whether it just be, you know, as a human being in their, in your life.
People don't separate their friendships from their business. And that's another thing we're seeing happen too, because people are thinking like, oh, this person's my friend because I've collaborated with them on multiple times, but like, it was mutually beneficial. That's a business relationship. That's not a friendship, honey.
Yeah. You got a contract? That's a business relationship. There's no contracts, that's friendship. Friendships develop in the DMs when you just genuinely, look at us for example. This podcast can be a prime example. So do we have each other's best interest and heart for business? Yeah, I would love, I'm going to be working with Athena.
You're going to see some things coming out. And That's business. But how we got to this podcast, this podcast wasn't with the intention to cross promote or sell anything. This podcast was a conversation based on conversation we had after developing a friendship from being in a program and being in a similar life situation.
That's right. So for saying, Hey, do you want to be on here? It was kind of a friend. Want to, let's talk about this. Let's get the word out there. But we could turn around and be like, well, let's. Let's just do a podcast. Well, actually you do have something coming that's more in the business realm. So you can do both, but you just have to be have integrity and the energy we're showing up.
I'm not sitting here going, well, yeah, well, yeah, if I get Athena on here and I get her to talk about me and then how can I use Athena? Like there are people that literally come at this stuff this way. And you've got to think about that. All the time. So like before you go circle jerk someone, okay, what's in it for me, for me, am I genuinely lit up and excited about this?
Yeah. I'm like, is this, is this for fun? Is it for connection? Is it for conversation? Whatever that is to you, whether it's a financial exchange, whether it's an audience exchange, like ask yourself why you're doing it with someone, or are you just star stricken and doing it because it's a big name? Yes.
Those opportunities can be great, but. I've turned down big name things in working with people. Me too. It didn't, I refuse to work with people that I know do not have the same values of, uh, expectations of integrity. Mm-Hmm. . And there's people that come at me with multiple things. Oh, well you take this on.
Well, you do this. Well, we could do this. And you just, you know when your gut, when you get that feeling and you know you're being asked something or they come at you with like weird shit, like all things they shouldn't. And you're just like, mm, that seems awkward. When you're insulted, you're insulted because they think you're so dumb.
Like, they think, they'll think you're like dumb to just say yes. And like, they don't value you because they wouldn't ask you if they valued you, right? They would. They would respect you as a human being and ask your opinion. It's a two way conversation. If you can't have a two way conversation or you feel like you're being cut short, you're being taken advantage of.
Yeah, that's a hard thing to know when you're being taken advantage of in this industry. It's like a star struck, a lot of the, like, you know, I'm gonna go back to like events and things like that. Seeing people speak, seeing people on stages, seeing them post all the content from being on stages. Like, yeah.
As somebody who didn't see that world from the backside of it until this year, just going to events, I always was like, Oh my gosh, that's so cool. They're so inspiring. Look at them talking on stage. I could never do that. And then when I got to the point in business where I was being invited, I was making those relationships over the last few years.
You know, being, And saying yes to certain things, and then seeing the back side of it, and I talked about this on my podcast too, about like, you guys, you guys, you guys see the shiny lights and the sparkle and everything, but like what you don't know is like that person fucking paid to be up on that stage.
That person isn't on that stage because the vast majority of people want them there. They're there because they paid to be there. They got the money to throw. Sometimes you're orchestrated. Sometime, look at what you're being sold. And there's nothing wrong with business is selling, but look at what you're being.
If you are in business, you should know better. And if you don't, it's because you don't know how to sell. So you need a coach to help you with that. When you, Like, I have been victim to this. I've, even a conference we attended together, I remember being there and be like, this is like, I felt like, I need to, how do I get this point?
Like, how am I going to get here? How am I going to do that? How am I going to get this? And then when I realized what it would be to be in that situation, I was like, no, that's not how I want to do it. That's not how I want to do it. I want to focus on growing audience and growing awareness and like, Being wanted to be invited to events.
Yes, you're gonna, I'm gonna have to pitch myself. Yes, there's certain situations if I want to go somewhere, I'm gonna have to make the effort to pitch, to send in the abstract, and I've developed a speech and a talk and a program. You guys are gonna hear about that soon. I'm not gonna tell you about it right now, because it's my little passion project on the side.
Um, So things are coming in that aspect, but out of this, we want to talk energetically and attracting what's in alignment with you. I was invited to go to the biotech event in Italy. It's something that I really want to be on stage now. Am I a paid speaker to be there? No, it's not there yet, but it's one of those things where making the choice in my business by going to the conference.
We actually got to hang out in person. Yeah. I made a connection, became a Canadian distributor of biotech and then we're now a biotech exclusive training facility at my school. Mm-Hmm. . But then they reached out and just to have a voice note and someone to invite, of course they want me to come to their event, it would make sense.
But for someone to personally invite me to come and then offer to be one of the success stories on, I get to have my own little time on stage. That meant a lot to me. I, it was recognition that I didn't have to poach. I didn't have to pay for, I mean, I guess I paid in a sense of like, investing my time and my interest and my care.
You took the risk. I mean, you took the risk. They didn't. You took the risk to sell their products, to try their products, to incorporate their products into your training, which is additional revenue for them, additional revenue for the school, everything like that. Absolutely. But you took the risk. Well, it leads into like distribution all and we had to look into bringing importing pigments.
You know, you find, I went without researching, you're like, oh shit, some insurance companies, they're like, do they meet these requirements? You're like, actually they supersede those, but I had to get approval from insurance companies to carry these pigments. Like it was a whole thing, but I knew what I felt good about.
And when I talked to them and their motives and their, their company, I was like, no, this is something I do want to back, brought it into my school. And then from that is flowering into this. And now yeah. Going on stage there is speaking to my own like growth and like what happened in the last year and now this is coming of it but I, I didn't go at it like I partner with them, maybe, maybe they'll, they'll talk about me enough and I can become, you know, like, yeah, like we see a lot of people doing.
Yeah, absolutely. That's exactly the point. It was, it was organic. Organic thing. Exactly. Things will happen organically for you when you lead with integrity, be authentic in your journey, in your mission, in your business, in your story, only give people, if people aren't paying for your time or they aren't respectful of your time, they don't deserve any of your time.
Like either they're paying you a third, like whether it's money or respect or whatever, you need to be careful with your energy. Like, yeah. In all aspects, but even clients, because there are people that will take advantage of you, they'll come into service and I don't have as much of that because we don't have shitty clients because people know that if they want to work with us, they have to, they have to be like, you paid, you paid a book and expectations from a client business relationship in my house and with students, we have, we have a screening process for students because we don't want people taking advantage of things.
You can't just come. Get free training on a payment plan and then fuck off and do shit from your home. That's not how it works, you know, like we have requirements. So in any Well, I said no to stupidness. Absolutely. I've said no to students. I, I have, I've talked to every single student that's going to sign up for my program.
Like, we talk, I do voice messages, we set up a call, we do, you know, all the things that we learn that we're supposed to do for these programs, right? And when you say, I am not the right program for you. I do not think that I'm going to be the right person for you. Here are a multitude of other courses that you can take that you might align with.
Yeah. Knowing when to say no. And I think that's something you need to keep in all community over competition. You still have to know when to say no. You can still have like friendships. I'll say a lot of time it's acquaintances. And then we feel like we're friends because we have that desperate need to belong, especially when you're a new business or a newer artist industry.
But you all have acquaintances or friendships or appearances or whatever it may be. I hate the word appearances because if you're keeping up appearances, you ain't, you're not fucking real. So I told my, I told my friend Michelle earlier today, I was like, I will be the most raggedy looking millionaire for the rest of my life.
You would never know. I'm still picking up pennies off the ground. I don't care. I'll flip it over. If it's tail, make it heads, baby, give luck to the next person. It's. It's just be okay with where you're at, who you are and who you're talking to and building a brand and brand awareness. I think piggybacks on this too, because when you're building a brand, that desperation to people, please, and work with everybody allow into your world and who you allow to represent your business also speaks a lot to your authority and your leadership.
So I'm not just going to let anybody, I'm not going to be like, I don't know. I can't even think of an example because I don't. Really deal with people that are shitty, but if you found like some sketchy business, but you know, the sketchy business, or maybe, you know, that they're just people that don't have good integrity.
Maybe they're like real bitches and they've got a really busy salon and you like want, you want your name in their mouth and you just feel dirty trying to get them to talk about you. So the cool girls can talk about you. Don't do that. Don't degrade yourself in order to get the attention to build your business.
It's not going to help you because in the end, Yeah, no, I agree a hundred percent. I actually had, when I first came out with my permanent jewelry training program, I had a very, very large spray tanning company from Canada. Asked me if I could provide. Oh, I got this. I've got the voice notes of this. I was shooka.
Because I was like, you have to screenshot me later. She literally said, I'm not like a scammer or anything. And then when I told her, no, I'm not going to drop my 5, 000 course to like 300 so that you can put it. Yeah. It was like, they wanted me to do something like Uh, shorten my videos, um, make it more affordable, make it in the 300 400 range for, for Canadians.
And I was like, I just, that's just not my market, and that's not my intent. It's just, my intent is not to sell a bunch of courses and not give people the real information they need. Like, that's not me. I straight up told her no. Well, she went and found somebody else. Which was fine, but I was not going to lower my standard in my coaching, my training program to just have the exposure.
No, it's not worth it. It's not worth it if that's not what you stand for. And I'm not saying there aren't business models out there that works for them. That's what they want to do. Even develop, coming from a space of developing online courses, Because I have some workshops that are coming out. So we're going to be doing like some work with me.
Little mini workshops, but those are going to specifically be for people with machine experience. Yeah. Right. So like, if you're going to do this little mini workshop, it's not a full, like you need to have the training to back it to even comprehend these methods. So having disclaimers, understanding who you're talking to, letting people know who it's for, Yeah.
Just in general, like even in selling in general, we just don't want to be convincing people of shit. Like that also speaks to integrity. If you're convincing someone to buy from you, you're, they're not for you. Yeah. Either they're ready or they're not. And selling people that aren't ready is never going to help you because they're the ones that aren't going to be happy.
They're not going to do the work and they're going to talk shit because they're not in that space. You just have to protect your integrity. Know who you're talking to, know who you're selling to and know what you stand for. Like you just, it's really. Entrepreneurship and being online and building a business, social media, you have to really do the work and re exploring and re understanding who you are and what you stand for continuously.
Continuously, yeah. And like you said, sometimes you have to burn the shit down or walk away. To really get back to the purpose of why you're doing something to begin with, or cut that cord because even in your first business, like, I mean, people have emotional attachments to their businesses. I had a very unhealthy emotional attachment to the STBestie brand and I recognize that, but yeah, but like, I had to get to a point where like I was.
strong enough emotionally and mentally to be like, okay, yeah, this is kind of fucked up. I think I just need to like set this over here for a minute and like focus on something else. And it's a, it's a breath of fresh air. Cause then when you do something else, you, it's a fresh set of eyes, a fresh perspective.
It's like, Oh, well what if I did that here then? Yeah. And it makes more sense. I remember like in art school, when I was at the college, we would be working on like a painting or a project. And sometimes you can't see the full picture until you stand back. And you'll be in there, and you'll be in there, and you'll be in there.
It's like, stand the fuck back. Also, not everyone's looking at your shit like this. You know? Stand back. Look at the full picture. And if you can't, get someone to help you with that. There's no shame in asking for help. I think there's a lot of that pressure, too, in the online space where it's like, Do it yourself.
Just do it. Just show up. Just do it. I'm an independent woman. Ugh. All of these independent women with these independent, nasty businesses are, they're, are they're paying? They're failing. They're failing miserably because they don't have a foundation of actual business skills. They just think that they can do great videos on Instagram and they have a fucking business.
And that's not how it works. They buy the fancy scrubs. They buy all the fancy supplies. They spend all their money on supplies for clients they don't have because everything looks good. It's like, okay, cool. So you've dropped 50, 60, 70 K into your space, but have you Learned how to run your business? I mean, I can talk about this because I had a whole tattoo shop.
I opened a tattoo shop in 2017 and I had the idea that certain people were going to work out of there with me. But in the end, it was just me because people and life, there were, there was no contracts. There was no commitments. People, they weren't there. It was just me. So I had a whole shop to myself.
Some people came and used it, came and go, but I was just flying by the seat of my pants. And then it became mom. And I was like, Oh fuck, I don't know what I'm doing. And I shut it down. I shut it down. And then, you know, Lo and behold, I can't even math right now. 2017 to 2023, whatever that is. How many years later?
Six years later? Oh, interesting. Six is a number of like reflecting and projecting. Okay. Anyways then I opened the school. Two doors down from my original location. It's like, this is what it was meant to be, but I had to go through that to learn that I can't be Fixated on business the way that I was then, and it wasn't working.
It was, I made a lot of money, but it wasn't working. Like I was working till 30 in the morning. And like, all I did was draw. All I did was work. All I did was people, please. And it, it, it, it wasn't going to happen. Especially when you're a baby and you're like, Oh, They're important. Yeah, then throw having a baby in there.
Yeah, like business also isn't ever going to look the way that people tell you it is online when you're a mom, especially when you have young kids. Like we're functioning on minimal sleep. We're making big decisions that impact our family, our husbands, our household, like how we show up for our kids. Like, There's a lot of pressure there, and if you're collaborating with people that don't understand that, they're going to have different expectations.
Or people that take advantage of that. People take advantage of that. People will also prey on the whole motherhood thing, too. So, find people who empower. And don't just like, people will just suck into that, I understand you. Do you? Cause if you understood me, you, you get what I need and where I'm at and help me like how to help me like ask questions, ask for what you need.
Don't assume everyone's going to just take care of you. Like you gotta save yourself when it comes to that shit. Yeah, that's true. I mean, you have to figure it out. And that's the thing too. Like, okay. How many years, how many years have you been in business? Like as a solo entrepreneur by solo, I mean like you started your shit yourself.
2017. So 18, 19, 21, 2, 3. You're coming on 7 years. Yeah. So you're coming on 7 years. Okay. I'm like actually figuring my shit out in the last like See? See? Okay. So I used to think that like, and when I look back now at like my first year in business and being like, Oh, I know exactly what I'm going to do. And I'm going to do this.
I'm gonna go back to school for this. And I just, I look back and I laugh because like, I'm not doing lashes. I'm not even taking my clients right now because I'm doing so many other things with like product and coaching and permanent jewelry. Mm hmm. And other stuff. So I'm like, wow, I was, I was so inspired to do absolutely nothing with what I thought I was being inspired by.
And I'm five, I'm coming down five years in. I opened a tattoo shop and I retired from tattooing in 2020. Yeah. And then I rebuilt all my businesses again. And I started with lashes and teeth whitening. Which I do neither of those things. When I went into the beauty industry. And now. Now I'm doing all this.
Now I've got product. I started with microblading and thought I wanted to do lashes. Went back to aesthetic school. That was a shit show. At least you have aesthetic school there because we are aesthetic schools. Like we don't have nearly the same licensing requirements. Like let me just tell you, they just take our money and run.
Oh, do they? Damn. Yeah, I should do it. We should do a whole like message. We should do like a whole podcast on that because I actually had to file a claim against my school and I was in a legal battle for my license. You are in an era of just like. We should just call you Athena hashtag truth seeker. Can that just be truth seeker?
No, girl, I know the truth. I am the, I am the truth like bomber. We need something more powerful. People who are truth seeking need to talk to Athena. She is just like, let me tell you, except she's like, let me fucking drop some shit right now. I love it. You need like your own gif where you're just like, I need a bestie, I need a S.
E. Bestie approved or S. E. Bestie calls bullshit. Essie Besty bombs, St. Besty tooth bombs, . Oh my God. Yeah. No, that's actually really, that's a good idea. I'll think about that a little bit more. Maybe these bath bomb lines people . But yeah, I mean, the things that I'm being pulled into too, it's like, it's obviously lessons that I need to learn.
There are lessons that I need to. I need to learn and I thought they would never happen to me because I have contracts in place because I built this business relationships with these people because I trusted a course and trusted a coach and trusted these things. You know what I'm saying? It's like these things that are happening.
Even, like, with yesterday with, like, this stupid ass comment on, on a Facebook group. Like, I, there's no, there's no reason I should be in that business. Why are you dragging me into that business? You know what I mean? I'm being pulled in to learn these lessons and to have this platform to literally share the truth about this industry.
Well, I'm just leading the fuck in like y'all want to keep dragging me in. I'm here. Let's go. I'm like, okay, fine. Sure. Give me, give me the content. Give me the lessons. Give me the things to talk about. And this is, I am, I'm like, I'm saying thank you for it. Thank you. People don't understand like these lessons.
You can't just go learn. This is why Working with like, we've worked with, we can both speak this, we're with different coaches, we work with different environments, group classes, masterclasses, private coaching. We've tried it all and we continue to follow different mentors because this is what happens. So if you're coaching with Athena, you're going to understand her perspective and the shit she's gone through.
Like, yeah, we've gone through different situations, different things. That experience is what you're buying into. That's what makes coaching and mentorship important. And that's what's helped me along the way is finding those that resonate, finding those that have been through similar situations that I need help walking through, things that I want to know and consider and learn and grow.
And that's where you have to be careful. And I want to speak to this because community over collaboration, your community is also your mentors. It's not just people that are on your level. Like those that you think are above you or you're reaching to for help. You need to have the discernment of who is for you.
Go, go ahead and binge their content. See if they have some, like, look at their story. Look what they're going through is what is it that you want to learn from them? What is it you're looking to gain from them? What are, what is it that you're hoping they have answers to? You want someone who has the results you're looking for or has walked through the similar situations you need guidance through because they have that perspective.
But also look at their life too. If you are going to someone, I don't know, I can't even think of an example right now, there's different people out there. Not everyone's your cup of tea. Don't just fall for I'm going to make, you're going to get this much if you work with me. Experience is baseless monetary claims with no proof behind them.
Yeah. Look at receipts. Look at real proof. Look at the proof. Look at the proof in the pudding with the clients. They've worked with the life that they, the life that they have or have lived, not just what they're showing, but they're talking about. You want to make sure you resonate and your community is the community you want to be a part of, that you want to be in.
You're not doing it just for popularity. You're not doing it just to throw their name in your stories. Like, you're You're not going to get anything out of coaching unless it's the community that you need to grow into so that you can create a community. Like there's so many pyramid scheme y shit like we were talking about this just you and I was like some coaches for example will take a coaching program or a person might not even be an experienced person it could be a new person hires a coach and then just rips off their shit or just reiterates everything they were told without even doing it and tries to sell it it's like yeah okay but we're Where did they apply it?
What works? I guarantee you not every single thing. I recently signed up for another program, actually, this summer that I'm going to do with someone. And in that program, I guarantee you everything she's going to teach me 100 percent of it, it'll probably work, but like, there's gonna be things that I like out of it that work for me, that my clients who work with me be like, Oh, how'd that, how did you apply that?
Especially being divergent as shit. Like some things just hit different for me. It's like, you know, Trello. I have a love hate relationship with Trello. Trello is a filing cabinet. I cannot. There are people that run their whole business through Trello. Okay, good. I'm not a Trello girly. I have 475 notes on my Apple phone.
Like, I have so many boards. I can't go in there. If I go into Trello, I will lose. It is a black hole. I will lose six hours of my life and come out more confused than when I went in there. Like, I just need to leave it. It is a doom pile that does not need to be organized. I agree. But yeah, just look, just just community.
Your community is what you make it. So anything in this podcast, I want everyone to think about community is about conversation. It is about like community is energetic. Community is, what? Community is love, loving yourself and your business enough to establish connection that matters, matters to you, matters to others and being, being intake, having integrity with the actions and connections you're making.
And the discernment to walk away and say no to ones that don't serve you, I guess is kind of how we're going to sum it up. Yeah. It's like it is, it's like building a community. Where you can connect with others that encourage you to do what's best for you, not because it's better for them. That's true community.
Like you, you do what is best for you. We are here to support you in whatever you decide. Yeah, like we aren't, community shouldn't be pressuring. There's no peer pressure in a community to perform, to provide. It's just, hey, I have an idea. Who wants to be a part of it? And then having the conversation, be curious, I guess, is what I want to say in your community and conversation.
Ask those hard questions. Don't know what questions to ask? Then that's the problem. You need to start asking more questions. You start asking hard questions, uncomfortable questions. People that are meant to be in your world or people that are in your community, as Athena keeps saying like education over fear, you're not, you won't offend somebody by asking to get the information you need to move forward.
I'm not going to be offended when people ask me, Well, what does this program entail? Or how can you help me with this? How, what, what, you know, they want to know more about it. I'm going to have a conversation with them. They deserve a conversation. I don't have to be like, you have to book a find out.
That's not how it works. Right. You want to do a collaboration with somebody and it's for social media. Like, well, what are we going to talk about? What do you want to do? Have a con what do you want to talk about? What do you want to do? What is the conversation for? Are you selling something? Are you connecting?
Are you just conversing? Are you audience building? Ask, don't just be like, okay, and then what, like, and then what, you know, like, don't just give up the goods. Like, I remember someone saying you can give all the information and don't give the how. I think it depends. You can give how, if it's feels good to you to do so, and it's not being like prompted or pulled or expected of you, like, like a relationship, right?
Like when someone's trying to get you to do shit you don't want to do, just be like, no. Yeah. I, I get those messages all the time. People are like, can I just buy your vendor list? I'm like, no. Well, that's, that's not very, you're not a girl's girl cause you won't give me your vendor's list. Fuck off. Excuse me.
By my course. Fuck off. Like, I'm not, don't call, don't comment my character because you aren't willing to do the work for yourself and you want me to hand it to you on a fucking silver platter. Yeah. That's not what it's about. No. At all. Just fuck off. I, I don't need to save everybody. They can help themselves.
Yes, we're here to help people learn how to lead themselves because if that's how we hold our integrity and take care of our community I'll help you out. But if you're not going to lead yourself, like I can't do the work for you. No, I'm busy I have a business to run myself. I can't run yours, too No, I mean you can pay me too, but I don't want to so no, I would still say no.
No, I would still say no I have to ask you that no my social media. I'm like, no, no It's not what I want to do. You can pay me to do it to anybody's social media. I can help you stay on top of it. Like I just launched my new social magic membership, like just with weekly keeping them accountable and all that stuff.
But I can help you with that, but I'm not gonna do it for you. Yeah, exactly. You can go on your account, you can type your shit, you can post your picture, I'll help you figure out what to do. Yeah, I mean, and that's the beauty of like, you know, having a coaching program and things like that too. Like you get to make your own rules.
You get to, you get to be the coach you want to be. You get to be the coach that you needed when you were seeking coaching. Be the person that you needed to hear from and didn't be what you were looking for. Be what you were looking for with integrity, I guess is what it comes down to on that note.
Agreed. All right, y'all. All right. Sign out. Sign out until next time. Until the next time. Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure. Thank you for being on. Thank you so much. Of course. Anytime.
